Sarah Palin Aide Rebecca Mansour: Our Crosshairs Map Had Nothing To Do With Violence Or Guns

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

Did not intend crosshairs to be gunsights

Think next time

Mansour continued, "We stole the emblem from one of the Care Bears. It was Crosshair Bear, who targets people that don't like him for soft, plushy hugs. Didn't anyone else see the cartoon but me? Seriously, people, it was a Care Bare symbol." After several tears she made sure to leave her number in case representatives of American Greetings would like to press the issue of copyright infringement.

Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda. Propaganda can be used as a form of political warfare.

Exactly! Her depiction of gun-sight cross-hairs and her reload comment are both intended to speak directly to her lunatic fringe base. Unfortunately she seemed to overlook the ramifications of this, or did she?

She and her Mistress Sarah Palin are full of @!$%#e.

I suppose "reload" was not a reference to guns or violence either, what a bunch of BS.

Oh they will spin it and it will be the victims fault just you watch. It always takes the train to hit the school bus before the guards get fixed. There will be death panels for these incidents also.

No, the tea party, palin, has nothing to do with guns or even bring them to protests. Now we will have to spend even more for the secret service to protect every flippin congress person? Start governing the right way and people won't get ticked off is the better answer!!! No more misinformation and propaganda also, grow up congress!!!

Right, and combined with "Lock and load", "Never retreat, reload" statements and that vacuous, inane 'kill all the wildlife' TV show of hers- now mercifully cancelled- we can all safely assume that she was just speaking of getting pissed at one of her kid's beer-bashes? Her blind and thought-free faithful may be that stupid, but the rest of us are not!

I reload film in my old camera, tape in the VCR, candy in the candy dispenser, toilet paper on the holder... etc.

Start governing the right way and people won't get ticked off is the better answer!!!

There's no such thing as "governing the right way" because you can't please a whacko... and the evidence is mounting that this shooting was the work of a ding... a wacko... a non-rational inDUHvidual. You may as well curse the meteorites that hit the Earth as rail at and try to find sense in this situation.

The attempt to connect a target on a map to this senseless act of mayhem is itself an act of insanity.

I did a quick search for references to things being "in the cross-hairs". Here are just a few from what could be a list of thousands.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/23/business/la-fi-pension-reform-20100423

http://www.coloradostatesman.com/content/992372-gop-chair-wadhams-caught-crosshairs

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_93878547-f78d-584f-8d87-0fd259af92da.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=dw-refbiasedannouncers061308

A devoted public servant is recovering from her wounds while others grieve their lost loved ones. At the same time there are those so deeply disturbed by their extreme political views they can't wait to spread the hate and fan the flames. These are very sad and disturbing times.

Nahh she doesn't incite violence or crazy people.... Here's a quote from a supporter from her facebook page..

LIBERALS!

They HATE America!

Worse, they HATE the Prophet Sarah!

God will judge them harshly!

Don't retreat, Sarah, Reload! Reload, in the name of GOD!

From the same guy...

Beck is an apostate!

And he doesn't believe in hunting from helicopters - which may be the only way we can save America from LIBERALS!

Sarah is America's only HOPE!

Praise!

And RELOAD in the name of GOD!

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=24718773587&topic=25041

@nofluer,

I reload film in my old camera,

Ah, of course that's what Palin was talking about. Just like she takes pictures of wolves from her helicopter.

After she's shot them.

madvargr

Mansour continued, "We stole the emblem from one of the Care Bears. It was Crosshair Bear, who targets people that don't like him for soft, plushy hugs. Didn't anyone else see the cartoon but me? Seriously, people, it was a Care Bare symbol." After several tears she made sure to leave her number in case representatives of American Greetings would like to press the issue of copyright infringement.

Unbelievable.

This response from a palin aide shouldn't surprise anyone ! Lawyer Up Sarah ! She is so full of sh*t (Sarah & Rebecca).

Crosshair Bear

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard and yes, you are the only one who ever saw a "Crosshair Bear" what the Hell are y'all smoking up there?

Clint-746036

The attempt to connect a target on a map to this senseless act of mayhem is itself an act of insanity...

...A devoted public servant is recovering from her wounds while others grieve their lost loved ones. At the same time there are those so deeply disturbed by their extreme political views they can't wait to spread the hate and fan the flames. These are very sad and disturbing times.

This is an example of Republican Backwardspeak in its most cynical and devious form.

Nofluer

There's no such thing as "governing the right way" because you can't please a whacko

I'm a sane person I like to believe, I can totally see where that guy was coming from and I bet he really isn't a wacko and you can't even say he is because you don't know him.

I like to believe when this country was started they had good intentions as shown from the documents that were written, that's governing in the right way. We are far from governing in any way 200+ years later.

Just Neli

Backwardspeak

Some of the folks here need to take a deep breath. The term "cross-hairs" has been used for many decades without violent intent. You have to stretch it a long way to make it a reference to violence but stretch it you will if you are so extreme you have to make everything your political opponent's fault. It would be a cold day in Singapore before I voted for Sarah Palin but I'm not going down this stupid road of hate with you.

Eris2010

Wow, thanks for pointing out the other side of the fence comments that are called palin supporters.

Don't retreat, Sarah, Reload! Reload, in the name of GOD! Sarah is America's only HOPE!

Now I don't even have to know this person and be able to conclude it's out of their cage and need to be locked up in an insanasilum. I mean they are condoning the actions and want it to happen more?!?

Democrats Exploiting AZ Shooting to Eliminate Free Speech

How does shooting a member of congress and 6 others dead along with 18 wounded have anything to do with eliminating free speech? Did anyone say to stop saying reload to her or to act like a respectable person in societies PR media bus. Obviously palin doesn't want to be respectable. All political people go around saying lock and reload

Or like this guy,

Steve Madurski
I'm going to believe my own ears Jason the man says all the time he condemns violence and tells us not too fall in the trap that the left has set for us to be violent.

Yeah, that's why he "jokes" about "adding poison to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's glass of wine on his show on Thursday afternoon." He condemns violence unless it's poison.

The true indicator of Sarah Palin's guilt, is that she took this website down so quickly and then her aide's are issuing 'statements'. If Ms. Palin is so guilt free, then she would have left her website up. The fact that she took it down so quickly while the rest of us were standing in front of the tv with our mouths wide open in utter astonishment, implies her complete guilt and lack of integrity. Saying that "I was just joking" does not cut it when so many have died.

Some of the folks here need to take a deep breath. The term "cross-hairs" has been used for many decades without violent intent

Clint-trying to explain this to group of people with acute PDS fixated on trying to blame this on Palin is next to impossible, did th NY Democrats sighted in this article want Peter king to be shot because he was in their cross hairs?

I'm on pins and needles waiting for the tortured explanations on how this if different than what Palin did that has their panties in a bunch.

Democrats have Pete King in the cross hairs.

National and state party officials are plotting to weaken King, one of New York's three remaining Republican congressmen, by redrawing the lines of his Long Island district.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/06/01/2009-06-01_dems_targeting_kings_district.html

Here are some other examples.

But today Democrats are turning their sights on Rubio, whose primary campaign against Crist been gaining momentum. By our count, it’s the first Democratic press release dedicated solely to Rubio since May 5, when Rubio formally announced his candidacy (just a few days before Crist’s own announcement).

http://www.postonpolitics.com/2010/01/are-florida-democrats-turning-their-attention-to-marco-rubio/

Virginia's governor is the latest GOP lawmaker Democrats have fixed their crosshairs on in the ongoing debate over how much, or little, the stimulus package has done to improve the economy

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/02/national-democrats-target-mcdonnell-over-stimulus

The term "cross-hairs" has been used for many decades without violent intent.

Agreed, but when linked to terms like: watering the tree of liberty with the blood, and a revolution every so often, and take back my country, and second amendment remedies, and our president is a muslim, or socialist, or hates America, or wants to destroy America, or I hate liberals or liberals are what's wrong with America...need I go on?

I think you might can see where mere metaphor has been exceeded, and the element of hate has entered the picture.

This might not have anything to do with this particular criminal... but it might. And why encourage others by allowing this atmosphere to exist?

Seriously?

I gotta add a sarcasm tag to my post at 1.2????

12 people got it...

As for Andy - so the DNC is responsible for how stupid news reporters frame a story now? If you want to counter with quotes, counter with actual quotes from people, not from a reporter's story.

But no - either all gun rhetoric is bad, or it is all ok. Make up your mind.

Of course the Palin camp didn't put up the ad and use the gun-related phrases with the intent to signal that someone out there should actually take up arms and shoot at the other side's polititcians ( though I'd still consider Angle's mention of "Second Amendment solutions to be suspect ).

The problem is that they ignored warnings that the imagery and phrases they used could be interpreted by some deranged individual out there, like the guy involved in this shooting, to do exactlywhat has just happened! They shrugged off such concerns over and over and kept the images up on their site until what they'd been warned about actually happened.

Now they're saying that they never intended for this to happen. Of course they didn't, but they also can't say that they had no idea that it could happen since it was argued from the time they first put those images and messages out there of what could happen and repeatedly dismissed the warnings.

After similar rhetoric was suspected of being a factor in the killing of Dr. Tiller not long before, they went ahead with their plans.

They may not be criminally liable, but they did have a part inthis due to their negligence, and that should be remembered before handing them money for public appearances, books, or more political campaigns since their own history indicates they lack the judgement to avoid repeating their mistakes, let alone the judgement to do a reasonable job of handling the responsibilities of office.

I gotta add a sarcasm tag to my post at 1.2????

I got it, but I think using the same setup that's standard here for a quote confused some as to your intentions.

@Phazfun:

I'm a sane person I like to believe, I can totally see where that guy was coming from and I bet he really isn't a wacko and you can't even say he is because you don't know him.

Are you kidding me? You "can totally see where that guy was coming from"? He Murdered SIX PEOPLE, including a NINE YEAR OLD GIRL! Not to mention the other 10 he wounded, some who may never recover.

Yeah, he seems like a regular guy to me...

I don't need to "know him". He's a whacko. Those people didn't all jump in front of him while he was at the shooting range. He targeted and shot them.

You either have serious issues or you're a troll. Either way your comments are not necessary.

As for Andy - so the DNC is responsible for how stupid news reporters frame a story now? If you want to counter with quotes, counter with actual quotes from people, not from a reporter's story.

And I'm sure the Daily Kos and other idiot left wing websites don't support the President and the DNC...have a problem with them posting a bulls eye on representative Gifford's because she didn't vote for Pelosi as Speaker, or allowing a post that says Gifford's is "dead to me" two days before she was shot? And what about freinds and former classmates calling him a commited leftist?

IS DAILY KOS INVOLVED IN ARIZONA MURDERS? “My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!” — eerie Daily Kos hit piece on Gabrielle Giffords just two days before assassination attempt; repeated use of word “dead” in relation to Giffords just 48 hours before she and a dozen others were fired upon. UPDATE: Daily Kos scrubs “dead to me” thread but screengrabs document everything; UPDATE: school classmates and former friends describe shooter Jared Lee Loughner as committed Leftist

http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/

I looked at the shooters facebook page. His political views: Tea Party Patriot

and it also shows a billboard: Where is the birth certificate?

Now, where exactly did all this type of rhetoric come from? The right wing conservatives. They all need to be held accountable.

I looked at the shooters facebook page. His political views: Tea Party Patriot

and it also shows a billboard: Where is the birth certificate

Lets see a screen shot of that!

Don't you people have jobs?,

It's okay for palin to say lock and load then reload, but when I'm in a war it isn't okay to defend you and kill them all? What happens in a revolution, have we in the past sat down and done it diplomatically? No we shoot and kill one another. I think we need to do and the deceleration of independence states;

That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Violence might have been the only thing that wakes this country up, so I can see where he is coming from, the BS has gone on for too long with blatant lies and words of violence, people just get fed up with it!!! Yes, I also agree he is a nutcase for acting on it. Tell me you haven't said about any politician or pundit, that guy needs to go away.

You either have serious issues or you're a troll

No need for insults without knowing all the facts!

It doesn't matter what Palin thought the cross hairs meant, it only matters what crazy people interpreted them to mean...Palin is too stupid to understand that.

Slinger-958418

Now, where exactly did all this type of rhetoric come from? The right wing conservatives. They all need to be held accountable.

I so agree with you! Accountability!! That goes for everything they do in congress also. Pass the bailout that was to protect retirement and home values and what did it do? Just that, it took them for 2 years now and hasn't improved

Shortly after news broke that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) had been shot at a congressional event in her district, observers began noting that she had, during the campaign,literally been Sarah Palin's target. But a Palin aide is now explaining that it was all a misunderstanding: the infamous image was never meant to evoke guns or violence.

Palin's "Take Back the 20" campaign (thewebsite has been taken down since the shooting) called on Americans to vote out of office Democrats from conservative districts who had voted for health care reform.

Hmmm... if it was never meant to evoke guns why take it down?

DNFTT

Darned good quote. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". But alas, I can't accept their claimof good intentions becaused Sarah laughed and quipped about the crosshairs when mentioned. She repeated that bs in different references. Lock & load, reload, we've got you in our sights. What the hell did she think some fanatic would fill his head with?

"We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights," she [Palin's aide] said in an interview with talk radio host Tammy Bruce Saturday. "It was simply crosshairs like you'd see on maps."

BULL!!

Bruce suggested that they could, in fact, be seen as "surveyor's symbols."

PLEASE SPARE US!

Mansour added that "it never occurred to us that anybody would consider it violent" and called any attempts to politicize the Arizona tragedy "repulsive."

This cross hairs crap is os dangerous and dispicable it even angered Mrs. Palin's favorite little cronie:

Sarah Palin's gun sight-riddled campaign map is so militant that it's even lost her the support of "The View" co-host Elizabeth Hasselbeck, who called Palin's behavior despicable."I think the way some Republicans are handling this is nothing more than purely despicable," Hasselbeck said. "The names that are next to and being highlighted by those crosshairs -- I think it's an abuse of the Second Amendment. I also feel as though every single person on here is a mother, a father, a friend, a brother, a sister, and to take it to this level is -- it's disappointing to see this come from the Party, and I would hope that leaders like Sarah Palin would end this."

Excuse me! "leaders like Sarah Palin"? aaaarrrrrghhh!!! The Republican Party fed this "political serpent" until it became and dragon. Now what are they going to do with it?

Doing a little research, I feel confident in calling Rebecca Mansour a bald faced LIAR! Now if someone can prove differently, I am willing to apologise but MY source

BASIC MAP & COMPASS SKILLS

It is illegal to tamper with, move, or remove survey markers. Map Symbols. Meaning set. Suffix indicating surveyor set a new monument ...

I am STILL looking and cannot find ANY surveyor symbol that resimbles a gunsight crosshair like on Palin's target map......if anyone else has found them, I'm interested in seeing them!

Hillbuzz??

Oh joy - another posting of the right wing blogger who thinks he's uncovered a treasure. Proof that Boyblue was the shooter. NOW. I'm tired of seeing that link. Since he's posted to Kos since the shooting, I think you might have a problem, but I still want proof. You don't know my legal name based off my handle, what evidence do you have that Boyblue is the shooter??

I am STILL looking and cannot find ANY surveyor symbol that resimbles a gunsight crosshair like on Palin's target map

Can't help you with the Palin Target Map. The second link is a TV ad from 2006 with cross hairs on then Republican congressman JD Hayworth...its made to look like the gun is being pointed at him.

The first link is a quote from Obama in 2008 that the idiot left conveniently forgets he said.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Obama_brings_a_gun_to_a_knife_fight.html

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”

A democrat candidate targets a republican, with a scope in a TV ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqB4tyvxWKA&feature=youtu.be

I have seen the Palin Target map and can find a copy if need be. CANNOT find a surveyor symbol that looks like the gunsight crosshair that was used on Palin's map. I HAVE seem gunsight crosshairs.

#1.39: Can't help you with the Palin Target Map.

Link to article showing SarahPac Map (scroll down a bit and you'll see it on the left side of the page).

Clint-746036

Just Neli

Backwardspeak

Some of the folks here need to take a deep breath. The term "cross-hairs" has been used for many decades without violent intent. You have to stretch it a long way to make it a reference to violence

If I say "I have you in my cross-hairs" it means I am targeting you, so how far do you have to stretch 'targeting' to 'making them a target'?

Pure BS from the Palin Camp

It didn't. But it did tell us that Mrs. Palin is thoroughly unfit to lead this country. Her consistently poor judgement tells me that she would be a awful President. I am dissappointed to see that so many seriously consider her to be qualified.

You ALL need to get a grip. How many of YOU would go out and shoot somebody because you were "ASKED" to do so.

Let's see the hands. I do not expect that ANY OF YOU WOULD.

Please stop being fools and perpetuating these lies.

The shooter is a disturbed person and would find meaning in a seashell or some other inanimate object.

Grow up. We are allowed to express our opinions in this country. If YOU don't like it - MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY AND MAY I SUGGEST IRAN.

Bad Boy

What kind of engineer are you? My father and cousin are civil engineers. My cousin's husband is an electrical engineer. What kind are you?

I am STILL looking and cannot find ANY surveyor symbol that resimbles a gunsight crosshair like on Palin's target map......if anyone else has found them, I'm interested in seeing them!

There is a visual of a surveyor's crosshair in the below link.

http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/listen-up-lefties-the-difference-between-the-dncs-bulls-eyes-and-sarah-palins-surveyors-crosshairs/

Don't you people have jobs?

DNFTT

What is that? Wow, talk about having a problem debating using the CoH code. The meaning of troll to me is "inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community" and it was none of those. It was unfortunate but I'm surprised it took so long for someone to snap.

http://supergerbil424.newsvine.com/_news/2011/01/10/5803719-climate-of-hate-paul-krugman?threadId=3025000&commentId=50714482#c50714482

#1.49: DNFTT

What is that? Always disliked acronyms, like I can read minds.

Do Not Feed The Trolls

There is a visual of a surveyor's crosshair in the below link.

Oh please,

1-the democratic map of targets were of states, and the Palin map was of crosshairs on specific named individuals (funny how they conveniently left that part out of the picture of her map)

2-the item you showed is a piece of equipment, Palin's people said it was like surveyors marks on a map, there are no such things that look like that for maps (that I've found) However, a request for a sniper target photo brings up this

3- You've also forgotten(?)her references to "reload" and "bullseye".

Palin's map may or may not have had anything to do with the nutjob killer, but it was absolutely a call to violence (hidden behind a curtain of "freedom of expression")and you and people like you who try to defend her and cover it up should be ashamed of themselves and any who are in office should be removed immediately.

What is a "BUILDER?" I never heard of it.

Unless you are an engineer, don't talk about engineering work and the tools used therein.

You LACK credibility as an engineer.

but it [marks on Palin's map] was absolutely a call to violence (hidden behind a curtain of "freedom of expression"

You're kidding right?

But maybe not. Maybe you are the kind of person who would pick up a gun and shoot someone because someone else asked you to kill someone.

The latter is the ONLY EXPLANATION that is plausible based on YOUR theory.

You're kidding right?

Please give an example of why you would put gun sights on an individual if it is not to shoot them. If she simply wanted to point them out on a map and couldn't use simple dots (like any normal person would), then she is not just plain stupid, but dangerously stupid.

...It seems like the links didn't work in my previous post, I'll try again.

Surveyor map -

Sniper taget photo -

The crosshair, or reticle, is used in any telescopic device, from a microscope to a camera. In mapping iconography it can signify the view seen through surveyors' equipment. It is found in astronomy, and in interface design, like in graphics software like Photoshop and on older versions of the iPhone Google Maps application.

According to this diagram of reticles in a Wikipedia article, some of the same crosshair designs can be used for both surveying equipment and rifles, since they're both concerned with measuring distance, or rangefinding.

The view through a reticle would look similar if you were looking through a surveyers' equipment or a gun sight.

We have a tragedy and the worst tragedy is people trying to blame this on someone specific such as Palin. This is the @!$%# that causes problems like this. It's sick that the hate mongers don't stop for a moment.

You're kidding right?

But maybe not. Maybe you are the kind of person who would pick up a gun and shoot someone because someone else asked you to kill someone.

The latter is the ONLY EXPLANATION that is plausible based on YOUR theory.

Karen, your rhetoric is lame.

You attack the person as opposed to the idea. You disprove nothing. What you do display, however, is your poor debate skills.

Karen in Los Angeles
You ALL need to get a grip. How many of YOU would go out and shoot somebody because you were "ASKED" to do so.

Let's see the hands. I do not expect that ANY OF YOU WOULD.

Please stop being fools and perpetuating these lies.

The shooter is a disturbed person and would find meaning in a seashell or some other inanimate object.

Grow up. We are allowed to express our opinions in this country. If YOU don't like it - MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY AND MAY I SUGGEST IRAN.

None of that - not one bit - addresses the FACT that Palin and others use violent imagery and rhetoric to get their messages across to their followers.

the worst tragedy is people trying to blame this on someone specific such as Palin

Really? That's the "worst tragedy"?

It's not so much the map itself as it is the rest of Sarah's statements. Talk about "taking back" the seats is accompanied with the subject because she says things like "let's reload" and so on.

And saying things like this...

"We'll aim for these races and many others," she wrote on her Facebook page. "This is just the first salvo in a fight to elect people across the nation who will bring common sense to Washington. Please go to sarahpac.com and join me in the fight."

This was directly from when she did the "take back the 20 campaign" it's what she said when she launched it.

She talks about it thru the Libertarian "Refreshing the Tree of Liberty with the Blood of Patriots" mantra.

The view through a reticle would look similar if you were looking through a surveyers' equipment or a gun sight.

Perhaps the view through the equipment is similar. but there is no equating surveyors map symbols with gun targets.

And more importantly, surveyor equipment targets land sites. Gun sights target living things. Like the living people listed on Sara Palin's map.

The gun targets I have seen were the ones shown from the Democratic sites. The images on the Palin site is a view through a reticle. Yes, it could be from a scope or other equipment.

The map also listed districts (geographical location) along with names of people.

The gun targets I have seen were the ones shown from the Democratic sites. The images on the Palin site is a view through a reticle. Yes, it could be from a scope or other equipment.

*sigh* Well, I hope the sand you have your head in is at least warm.

WTB....,

People are making political hay out of this event WITHOUT evidence to the fact that the "gunsight?" images on the map of the US was the reason a crazed gunman shot several people.

I see people trying the lynch Palin (metaphorically) without evidence and people are just falling into the mob mentality. I do not like Palin, but I can at least sit back and see the radical leftist being no different when seeing similar images (previously provided) and reading comments about calling for punishment of people without due process

bitemore

Thanks, I knew that after I had to look it up. I said what's that only to express my concerns of debating here on the vine. Troll is derogatory in every sense of the meaning so he/she insulted instead of being cool headed and debate an issue.

Seems quite clear that both dems and reps have used targets, sights and cross-hairs in their various maps, so if these are truly the reason that this whack-job shot the congresswoman (and others), both the dems and the reps are guilty.
However, I think those who rely on common sense in these type of situations, will come to the conclusion that the maps and imagery used on those maps has little to do with the tragedy that took place in Tucson this weekend.

However, I think those who rely on common sense in these type of situations, will come to the conclusion that the maps and imagery used on those maps has little to do with the tragedy that took place in Tucson this weekend.

BINGO!

People are making political hay out of this event WITHOUT evidence to the fact that the "gunsight?" images on the map of the US was the reason a crazed gunman shot several people.

If you'll notice, I stated that I didn't know whether Palin's map was to blame or not for the nutjob's actions, but that the map with the cross-hairs on it with specific people listed was undoubtedly a veiled call to violence. I was amazed that people are actually agreeing with and defending the bull@!$%# that Palin's people are putting out there to cover their asses.

If they were surveyors map marks, why didn't they say anything about it before this (there was certainly an uproar when it first came out)? Why did they remove the map right after the shooting? Why did Palin tell her followers when the map first came out to "reload" and refer to the map later with the word "bullseye"?

Trying to pretend that she meant anything but putting a guns sights on specific people and targeting them for removal is what is radical, and in my opinion, repulsive.

#1.69: If you'll notice, I stated that I didn't know whether Palin's map was to blame or not for the nutjob's actions, but that the map with the cross-hairs on it with specific people listed was undoubtedly a veiled call to violence

We may never know... but what I find ironic is that until she tried to pull that map down, I'd never even heard of it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It is even likely that the shooter had never heard of it, much less seen it. It all depends on how big a fan he was of Sarah Palin. But, had she kept her big mouth shut and simply left that map alone, I think the discourse here would have taken a different tack.

Sometimes, you just gotta hear the echoes of "Methinks thou protest too much..." Sarah should have left well-enough alone.

If the maps are the problem, Palin isn't the only one who used the map approach for political objectives:

Examples of maps

(this link was provided by another viner on a similar seed)

It seems that we either blame everyone who's used the target/bullseye/sights/cross-hairs on a map approach, or we come to our senses, and realize that the maps probably had little if anything to do with the shooting.

Smith Cassidy - DO NOT AGREE. I don't even know whose post I was commenting on. I commented ON THE POST.

Bad Boy - Do you usually befriend people that you just verbally barbed? I usually don't barb anyone and I usually do not befriend people who are rude to me.

However, I think those who rely on common sense in these type of situations, will come to the conclusion that the maps and imagery used on those maps has little to do with the tragedy that took place in Tucson this weekend.

BINGO!

I third this motion.

It seems that we either blame everyone who's used the target/bullseye/sights/cross-hairs on a map approach, or we come to our senses, and realize that the maps probably had little if anything to do with the shooting.

I honestly don't think that Palin's map had a direct connection to the shooting (although it did add to the violent air that has been looming in politics since 08), but the article is about the lies that Palin's aides are telling about the maps original intent. And the fact that people are defending and trying to cover up Palin's violent tendencies towards her opponents is appalling.

WTB - what does the author of the article know about Palin staff's intent?

NOTHING - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I suggest you learn to take information at face value without analysis.

It's the analysis that gives many of you trouble.

I suggest you learn to take information at face value without analysis.

I have:

1 - picture of map put out by Palin with sniper cross-hairs on it and a list of people that palin wants removed.

2 - along with the map, Palin tells her followers to "reload", then later brags that her "bullseye" icon worked.

3 - After the shooting the map is removed and Palin's aide says it had nothing to do with guns or violence and that it was like surveyor map marks.

No analysis needed, Palin's aide is lying.

Karen

My problem with SP's use is that she targeted an INDIVIDUAL. I saw that map with the bullseyes that the rights are using to try to prove that democrats are just as bad. Those bullseyes are on STATES, not people. It said to target those states for democratic gains.

First, who is going to shoot a state? How do you shoot a state? You can't, because there's no real target.

Second, the language used was not hateful but more positive. It spoke of targeting those states for "gains" not for "brutality" or "evil-doing" or anything else negative. So the language itself is not inflammatory vs the repeated gun imagery and words such as 'reload'.

Third, SP's focused on a person rather than the position. It's one thing for anyone to say like, "We have to go after McCain and eliminate him." vs."We have to target the Senatorial Seat for a democratic gain". One is implying it's the person to be gotten rid of, the second is saying that you want the seat and isn't that what you are supposed to want? The seat? You want them to lose but nothing about them being "eliminated".

I take a look at all that. It's not just the graphic but how it is used, the context so to speak.

I know that means little to you but to us, it means quite a bit. To take something out of it's context is to deprive it of it's purpose.

Sort of like the guy taking "@!$%#" out of huck finn. As a black person, I am disgusted by him doing that. It is the language of the time and it is the context of the time of the book. Taking it out, takes out a vital part of the book and destroys it's value. Because as a "@!$%#" Jim is thought to be less than a person but it is through the book that they realize he is a man and a good man in and of himself. So he is not some catchall word but a human of many dimensions.

Violence might have been the only thing that wakes this country up, so I can see where he is coming from...

OK all you righties out there pontificating along the lines of "well, we certainly didn't mean anything like this.............."

Here is another one, right here on this thread talking the talk of violence. So is Phazfun just another one of your smallbrained little buddies or will you be disavowing him if he pulls the trigger?

Rahlly,

In one map, the dems used targets for states, and terms like "targeting" and "behind enemy lines". In another they included red targets to signify "targeted republicans" (their term not mine) who they wanted to remove, and provided their name and district along with their vote on the stimulus.

So clearly both dems and reps have used similar (if not almost identical) tactics. Those who choose to spend so much time articulating why one map with targets is OK and another is wrong are splitting hairs and showing that partisanship is their priority.

Really?

And the ones who defend a guy who shows up at a political rally with a pistol strapped to his leg and a sign saying "It's time to water the tree..."

Are both sides using that rhetoric?

The wingnut who warned of "2nd Amendment consequences..." if she lost her election?

Both side said something that dumb?

The nitwit who said she wanted her backers to be "Armed and dangerous"?

Both sides did that?

No, they didn't. Everyone of the above geniuses were TeaBaggers. So get your sht straight or move it out.

I agree the targets are used as a symbol almost everywhere. It is when the visual symbol is used in connection with the negative verbal furtherance of the symbol, i.e., "reload" or "armed and dangerous". The verbal reinforcement of a visual that is in itself innocuous is the problem. People on the edge start conspiracy theories with this sort of visual/verbal association. Then in states like Arizona where it is easy to buy weapons, you have a very large problem.

Smyth

Rahlly,

In one map, the dems used targets for states, and terms like "targeting" and "behind enemy lines". In another they included red targets to signify "targeted republicans" (their term not mine) who they wanted to remove, and provided their name and district along with their vote on the stimulus.

Yet it wasn't used with violent language. No language to denote weapons were used and the bullseyes were not on the people. They wanted to remove them from their seats, yes but where is the violent imagery evoked by SP's "lock and load" and "reload"? Where is it connected to the violent rhetoric that those people want to "destroy" those who don't agree with them? Have the democrats ever said that we have to destroy those people, did they ever say that those 'targeted republican' seats and the holders of those seats we out to destroy people? Did the democrats ever say, if they don't listen to you, arm yourself and MAKE them listen? No... they motivated the vote but that's not "second amendment remedies" it's like like bachmann's call for people to arm themselves for a revolution.

While they may use a target, they don't link to violence or calls to violence.

Even if the "shooter" never saw Palin's map [with Rep. Giffords' name & location on it], most people, I repeat, MOST PEOPLE, that did see it thought the symbols were gun sights. Especially when you hear and see Mrs. Palin winking, bragging, and signifying about hunting and being a great shot. Therein lies the disgust and the connection to Sarah Palin.

Please don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.